chad
Loquacious
Han Chinese tonight...or maybe Space Goats
Posts: 150
|
Post by chad on Nov 26, 2015 23:19:28 GMT
Well, I think spears should be useful in two ranks, and be ok against infantry and good against cavalry. If disordered though, they should suffer - this is already covered in the rules. With respect to effectiveness against cavalry, the above suggestions might cover it, it's just a question of what extremes you want to go to.
One other thing that occurs, does the penalty for fighting in two ranks only apply to the second rank, or to both ranks? I'd assumed the latter but maybe it's open to interpretation.
Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?
|
|
chad
Loquacious
Han Chinese tonight...or maybe Space Goats
Posts: 150
|
Post by chad on Nov 26, 2015 23:20:53 GMT
Oh yeah, and I've been doing excel spreadsheets for army points calculations - would anyone find these useful?
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 27, 2015 12:24:03 GMT
"Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?"
Technically, yes because having a hw as well is still zero points.. but that's starting to get cheesy right there. Having them carry an extra weapon should get them at least a -1 encumbrance... otherwise people are going to be wandering about with a sword, spear, pike, 2h axe and a club-with-nails-in-it all at the same time..
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 27, 2015 14:02:56 GMT
"Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?"
Technically, yes because having a hw as well is still zero points.. but that's starting to get cheesy right there. Having them carry an extra weapon should get them at least a -1 encumbrance... otherwise people are going to be wandering about with a sword, spear, pike, 2h axe and a club-with-nails-in-it all at the same time..
|
|
|
Post by casb1965 on Nov 27, 2015 19:52:34 GMT
"Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?" Technically, yes because having a hw as well is still zero points.. but that's starting to get cheesy right there. Having them carry an extra weapon should get them at least a -1 encumbrance... otherwise people are going to be wandering about with a sword, spear, pike, 2h axe and a club-with-nails-in-it all at the same time.. You mean like Aztecs in the old 6th edition WRG rules.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 27, 2015 20:53:50 GMT
"Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?" Technically, yes because having a hw as well is still zero points.. but that's starting to get cheesy right there. Having them carry an extra weapon should get them at least a -1 encumbrance... otherwise people are going to be wandering about with a sword, spear, pike, 2h axe and a club-with-nails-in-it all at the same time.. This needs to be accounted for in some way, then. Either the SP+HW weapons listing for damned near every spear (or polearm, or pike) armed unit in the game is incorrect, or we have to find some practicable way to allow troops to use their mix of weapons. There is a huge amount of precedent for soldiers throughout history carrying a 'unit' arm such as spear, pike, glaive etc, to be used in formation fighting, as well as a one-handed straightsword, backsword (or gladius) as a sidearm for when unit cohesion breaks down and fighting comes down to personal defence. Troops armed in such a way were used to marching and drilling with all those weapons at once, setting down, picking up, drawing and sheathing in seconds on command. There are songs where this activity features. I'd say in that instance there's no justification for encumbrance rules. I reenact with sword and pike simultaneously and when you're used the the weight you're used to the weight. Perhaps more relevantly, much more hardcore groups like the Ermine Street Guard, who routinely drill and march in lorica segmentata get similar results. For what it's worth though it does seem mad to be able to tab between the two weapons at will, particularly the longarms (you can sheathe a sword, you can't sheathe a spear). As I see it there are two options: 1: Spear & Sword armed troops must declare at the beginning of the battle which arm they are using for the entire battle. This sacrifices realism for practicality in that there is no disadvantage to troops armed only with hand weapons and shields, and no need for points changes. It does disadvantage spear/pike troops who become disorganised, when historically they had swords for backup. 2: Spear & Sword armed troops can switch from spear/pike to sword once per battle, effectively getting stuck in once (if) cohesion breaks down. This is realistic, but should probably be compensated with points (a major drawback if your elvish troops are bloody expensive already). We may be getting excessively granular on this issue, but it did come up in the last battle so seeing people's thoughts is interesting.
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Nov 27, 2015 21:33:13 GMT
My opinion, for what its worth, is that whats in the list is what you get. On the Men-at-arms there are options on a number of units which can act as guide.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 28, 2015 16:00:15 GMT
"Either the SP+HW weapons listing for damned near every spear (or polearm, or pike) armed unit in the game is incorrect"
Are you reading the same version of the army lists? Only I can't find any spear unit which is listed as having a hw as well...
Is it at all possible you're reading things like " H/Sh Sp " and seeing that as a hw, sp and shield instead of heavy armour, shield and spear?
"My opinion, for what its worth, is that whats in the list is what you get."
Well, yes. I sort of feel that as well...
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Nov 28, 2015 18:32:36 GMT
Having issue with giant worm.
Does that base size not look a bit on the large size 5 x 15 cm !
Painting not looking good either ....:-(
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 28, 2015 20:11:12 GMT
Ah, now. I generated a solution for this.... That's a Reaper model at the front on a 5x5. The next bits came from a job lot of Kryomek figures off of Ebay -- which included (for some reason) a Warmaster that someone chopped into bits. There weren't enough parts to reassemble it, so I hung onto them... and they become the back of this worm, on two more 5x5 bases. Then I figured I'd see how the actual Kryomek figures looked liked in the same scheme... and I think they look quite good. It's a bit fiddly doing the pink washes on the white flesh, but it shows up the detail nicely. See, I am painting this Rat army. I have, in fact, just been putting another layer of rust on the metalwork of a gun for them...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 28, 2015 23:28:22 GMT
Are you reading the same version of the army lists? Only I can't find any spear unit which is listed as having a hw as well... Is it at all possible you're reading things like " H/Sh Sp " and seeing that as a hw, sp and shield instead of heavy armour, shield and spear? ... *Checks army list* D'oh. Well that solves that issue. Forget everything I said, except Follow Me Up to Carlow, that is a fine old song. Nice groundworm, incidentally. I agree that is probably the way forward for Chris, although If I were to suggest a paint sceme it might be simple layering of the one shade, with a nice slimy sheen of gloss varnish to lubricate its passage through the cthonic depths.
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Nov 29, 2015 13:19:21 GMT
Once more, an other amazing mini from Katie. Will have to come with a pale shadow of that.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Mar 11, 2016 12:00:47 GMT
So I heard some talk of "the rattening" being imminent last Monday, and my elvish-human alliance is ready to mix it with the verminous horde again. I have 2000 points ready to play with an extra 1000pts in production. I will be bringing in the 2K next Monday if the rats wish to show themselves.
I would be keen to introduce some weather effects this time.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Mar 11, 2016 19:46:53 GMT
I'll go and cut up some markers and things.
Have you got a set of them?
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Mar 11, 2016 23:31:07 GMT
If you could bring some, that would be ace.
|
|