Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Oct 18, 2017 9:18:03 GMT
"appreciate a glance through Rogue Stars" I will try & remember to bring it in. "happy to do a farmland/undead battle whenever you please." Then you'll be wanting this; letter-to-elves.pdf (24.15 KB)
|
|
chad
Loquacious
Han Chinese tonight...or maybe Space Goats
Posts: 150
|
Post by chad on Oct 18, 2017 12:45:57 GMT
Excellent and entertaining post-battle report Rory - although I'm not sure about the ruse of using an Entwife to entice our treeman into battle, it summons up far too many phrases with the word 'wood' in them to allow decency to be maintained....
Anyhow, I like the DR rules - the mechanics are very straightforward so easy to pick up, and I think after a couple of turns everyone had the hang of it. I think maybe a bit more thought is needed about how to use these rules in a big-battle format - it's almost impossible to maintain any kind of battle-line as the movement is so random. Perhaps the use of battle lines could be used - a single activation roll to move a group of lined up units using the highest activation from the group and moving at the slowest speed. But maybe I'm over-complicating things needlessly - it was an enjoyable game regardless!
If only more daylight had remained we may have had a decisive result - would the elves have been be overwhelmed by the rat-tide surging down the hill, or could the elven archers have been brought to bear on the massed rat-throng on the hills, the remnants of which would have been carved apart by the remaining elvish close combat troops? Who's to say?
|
|
|
Post by Timf on Oct 18, 2017 13:56:55 GMT
Given the average units seem to cost 4 points apiece a bland no specials army will rock in around 6 units. That's a fairly small number of units...being able to move a lot of them suddenly becomes very powerful I would say it had to be a special ability that allows units with the ability, within range of each other and the Leader to test together. I wouldn't give it to all troop types either. The disruption and the subsequent army management is a bit part of the CCC choices for DR. At least that's the impression I left with so I don't want to mess to much with it. If I could take warbeasts and not lose them they'd be a lot more powerful (as we saw happen with Chris' rats....). As such a free ability to do this seems out of place to me.
I would make it a 1pt upgrade (Lockstep) that hordes and warbeasts couldn't take (too wild), nor the elite and bellicose Foot and elite Horse (too undisciplined) nor Scouts and Hounds/Handlers (too independent). I see an argument for Light and Heavy Missiles, plus Handguns also getting it as potentially drilled troops. Leader must have it for any other unit to take it. Any unit in command range of the Leader may Lockstep and get to take a Move Action when the leader tests - the Leader's Move value becomes the highest of all units they are attempting to get in Lockstep. The Leader MUST roll dice for this (i.e. No Goaders freely moving entire armies) and the dice result is the natural rolled number. Failure halts turn as normal.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Oct 18, 2017 19:53:02 GMT
Various people have cautioned against messing too much with the activation system; it IS the major choice mechanism -- do lower rated units first & work up vs do the important things just in case. The whole point is simulate how hard it is to get some units to do some sort of actions. The pitch was of the form "if you want units charging about all over the place, get light cav -- infantry doesn't move very fast..."
(I actually prefer the extra control to the card driven mechanism of TFL games)
The "Larger Lion Rampant" extension gives units multiple moves per turn along with the Davg motivation re-tries. So it's possible to get units back into a line.
It IS supposed to be a skirmish game remember -- if people want battle-lines and ordering systems and things, that's what "Fantasy Warriors" is for... :-)
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Oct 18, 2017 21:30:17 GMT
Well what concerned me most was that some units just got left behind after missing a couple activations in a row. Once too far back there was never any point of trying with them.
Some rough thoughts & suggestions
1 Loose the whole 'fail to activate = turn over'. Quite a drastic change I admit.
2 Allow a number of fails per turn. ( To be fair , in the last engagement, maybe the elves should have a second roll each, and one to share maybe)
3 Have some 'resting' markers for un-activated units. This give a +1 on the their rolls to wake up,but don't stack, so not a huge jump, but maybe enough to get things a chance to get moving moving. Remove if subject to enemy action. Number could be limited depending on army type or situation. A ready army, or raiding force could start with a marker on each unit at start, whilst a surprised or weary army could have a limited supply.
4 Have the battle leader give a +1 to activate attached unit.
5 If we go with larger forces then split into forces each separate for activations.
Just my humble thought.
|
|
|
Post by Timf on Oct 19, 2017 8:14:55 GMT
I can understand why people say don't mess - hence why the only changes I would currently consider in regular battles would have to be paid for abilities..... Larger battles does have more of a case but there you want to build an add on system so its a slightly different case. I liked the one failed roll for the elves, more would have made it too easy to activate everything in comparison to the opposing sub army.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Oct 19, 2017 8:39:26 GMT
Various people have suggested 18 point "battle" limits for larger games -- each gets a leader (and you could probably swap the leader abilities around to make them appropriate for the commands); so we'd have ended up with about 4 commands per side.
|
|
chad
Loquacious
Han Chinese tonight...or maybe Space Goats
Posts: 150
|
Post by chad on Oct 19, 2017 12:24:12 GMT
I agree we should be cautious about tampering with the activation system. The thing is though, I really like the combat and classification system, and although as Katie says it's a skirmish set of rules, it would be great to use it in a big-battle format because of the simplicity of combat and movement.
I note that it's been said that some versions of these rules have lower activation requirements - for big DR battles could we just knock off 1 point from the activation scores?
Oh and one other thing, about hills...... Da rulez say 'Hills count as cover if defending an attack and uphill of the attacking unit' - so the bonus only applies if you are the defender, not if you decide to attack downhill. I don't think this would have made a difference in our games on Monday, but worth remembering!
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Oct 21, 2017 17:37:20 GMT
Bought a copy of DR now. Looks like I can roughly port all the FW rat units across.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Oct 26, 2017 22:15:52 GMT
"appreciate a glance through Rogue Stars" I will try & remember to bring it in. "happy to do a farmland/undead battle whenever you please." Then you'll be wanting this; Nine realms! I didn't realise that the situation was so tough on the other side of the Jaded Paths. So what's the battle? A counter-offensive by the witchfolk and whatever they summon or are we playing out whatever dire scenario has Profundia-Luthany unable to put an army in the field against the Topaz Throne? I have personally always liked the quirky unpredictability of DR although an 18pt limit per command in a multi-command game seems sensible.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 8, 2017 20:56:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 8, 2017 21:25:11 GMT
From: First Equestrian Thandril, Commander of the elvish Occidental Expedition, Consul to the Lords Allegiant and Viceroy of His Serene Highness' holdings in the mannish realm of Luthany;
To: His Majesty King Marhal of the Twinned Kingdoms of Profundia and Luthany;
Noting with deepest concern that your Majesty has proven incapable of policing his most dangerous subjects;
Offering our deepest regrets that immediately following our descent from the Pass of the Dire Wombats some of your Majesty's subjects were inadvertantly harmed;
With the proviso that a diplomatic mission is entitled to self-defence in the event that its security cannot be guaranteed by the sovereign of the host nation;
We wish to convey the following account of the battle which we were obliged to fight to secure the safety of His Serene Highness' forces in Profundia and Luthany.
With the snows of winter closing all the major passes through the Star Dragon Mountains, our forces were guided through the last navigable routs by a local tribal shaman, Hereward the Braw. While much of the birdlife on the occidental side of the mountains is unfamiliar to us, Hereward insisted that their flight patterns augered well. So it was that your letter detailing an imminent confrontation with the Witchfolk of Profundia-Luthany came as something of a suprise.
We are equally unused to unregulated magi in the realms of the Topaz Throne, and so it was with trepidation we observed the formation of an entire army of scarecrows and pumpkins which the witches of your kingdom had animated to oppose our entry to the mannish regions. We advanced to meet them across the well-tilled fields of the Luthanian farms which had opened up beneath us in our descent from the uplands. We marched into your lands in the last hours of the evening to ensure that we would have a clear line of advance, and as the sun came up it gleamed most impressively off the armour of the elvish army. Immediately the air was filled with a hail of flaming pumpkins and a shrieking hag hurled sorcerous flames at our warhost. Forming a shieldwall, our infantry pressed forward in the centre, and a line of archers, with our bolt thrower section, advanced to our right to secure the foothills overlooking the witches' position.
While your correspondent was conferring with the Allegiant Light Horse on our left, the witches unleashed a torrent of horrors toward the centre of our battle-line. First, a wave of bespelled farmers, who charged down the road astride great hogs their trance-like state rendering them unaware of the bolts which cut down their line. The hogs crashed into our axemen and were swiftly reduced to scratchings. Strafed by the flying witch, Hereward the Braw fell to earth with a wound to the head; our archers were obliged to shoot her off her broomstick before she could cause any more damage. The second wave of terrors was far worse - A lumbering agglomeration of ancient books in the shape of a man, and the spectral apparition of a green-clad swamp man. With their charge, the centre began to waver and elves fell back to the pass, but largely our courage held and we continued our advance to the heart of the position.
On the right, our archers exchanged a hail of missiles with a regiment of pumpkin men hurling their fellow pumpkins with fraticidal abandon. Our infantry anchoring the right also formed a shieldwall and fended off the worst of the deluge. Our own archers and crossbows swept the witches' field almost clean of the vegetative creatures, and the seemingly invincible headless fiends who seemed to marshal the host rode back and forth in disarray.
In the centre, things were looking grim, and your correspondent was obliged to shore up the battle line in person to prevent our warriors retreating before the book creature and another wave of crude agricultural chariots which were powered by a wicked magic that inured them to our weapons. With the sun by now well past its zenith, the Allegiant Light Horse burst from the woods on our right, scattering those of the witches' servants remaining in the woods and charging the catapults in the centre of the position. With the elvish archers finally out of arrows, they and the remaining infantry on the left finally charged home and began cutting down the last line of defence for the no-longer cackling crones who had raised this unnatural army from Smintheus knows where.
The witches had no further desire to oppose our steel and with the blessings of the war-goddess Leete we raised a cheer as they scattered to the four winds. The neat and well-ordered farms of your realms lay undefended before us, and we have so far successfully lived off the land, unable as we are to return to His Serene Highness' realms until the new year. We are quite willing to extend the protection of elvish arms to your realm as long as your difficulty with internal security persists. However in return we require the following provisions:
-Sleeping silks. It appears that the common people of your realm do not sleep in silks like civilised folk, but instead on a sort of large bolster filled with straw or feathers. In addition to being impractical, this is ridiculous and consequently we will need many winter silks for our army. -A new guide to the geography of your realm, Hereward the Braw died from his wounds and never made much sense even beforehand. -A wider range of fresh meat and vegetables. The stores of your local farmers contain nothing but salted pork and pumpkins, and it sickens the stomachs of men and elves to consume nothing but this fare following our recent encounter. I really cannot stress this point enough.
I hope this letter finds your Majesty in good health and most humbly look forward to recieving a proper deputation by return of post. If this is not forthcoming it would be remiss were the Occidental Expedition not to march immediately on Herring's Reach and offer our compliments to your Majesty. There is much our nations have to discuss, not least the current whereabouts of the Worldpen and the sad decline of diplomatic protocol in a dangerous era.
Your most obedient and humble servant,
Thandril
In the name of His Serene Highness Eldadhrien Opalheart, by the grace of all the Gods save One, King upon the Topaz Throne of the Elves of the Neythyr Regions, Protector of the Realms Allegiant and master of the Sapphire Sea. All hail!
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Nov 8, 2017 22:38:25 GMT
Excellent AAR. Been looking forward to this since Monday, and not in vain. Is there to be one for the DR fracas ? Can it be woven into the narrative of the "Seven nation war".
Been thinking about my observations from the hill and will post when fact checked.
Also it must be noted that the greasy furry residents of Grimfell tower have paid close attention to events in the farmlands. Firstly as to the strenghts and weakness of an undead/neverdead army. Perhaps of greater significance is that a major contingent of forces of the 'Tinsel foot-stool' are on the wrong side of a snow filled pass. Whilst the cats away; the cat flap get boarded up and the litter tray is bobby trapped.
|
|
Katie
Cato Would Be Proud
We need bigger datas.
Posts: 625
|
Post by Katie on Nov 8, 2017 22:49:49 GMT
I forgot something -- Magic users can regain power...
That might have been important...
It's OK... The Llanis army has decided to show up!! The elves might need to be having a word with them...
|
|
|
Post by kaustic on Nov 8, 2017 23:44:46 GMT
Observations and comments.
Shooting.
For kills to specials : the shooter chooses which one but the standard bearer is the last one to fall.
To kill an individual out on their own needs a six per kill is needed. Maybe some of the witches would have survived longer in this case. Makes them even more dangerous!
Melee
If an individual is attached it is subject to the rolling a six for every 3 hits. Where it appears on the unit is immaterial. So that flank charge was unlikely to have taken that individual down.
On the other hand the saving through is 'greater' than the number listed so a save of 7 would require an 8+ to survive. I think , but could be wrong, we have been reading this wrong.
Flank attacks :. We didn't use this but having a '+1 to hit for the first round' seems a good start. After a unit has been attacked on the flank it turns to face on subsequent rounds.
Frontages . We haven't really done anything with changes to the frontage of units: expansion and contraction. Has not been an issue to date. Maybe getting that cavalry through the gap between the farmhouses but as they were disorganized anyway it was reasonable.
|
|