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Post by listy on Sept 13, 2021 18:18:17 GMT
Right, to get us moving forward, I think the best bit is to get the rules we can all agree on?
1: If you're ill, or develop any of the symptoms while at the club, or awaiting a test stay away. 2: Ventilation, all doors and windows to be opened. Be warned, winter is coming: dress appropriately. 3: frequent hand cleaning (Set an alarm clock for every hour? Half-hour?). 4: Masks while moving about the room. Other than that PPE to be personnel choice.
Points to consider:
Social distancing, table hopping etc. The problem here is of course it can kill the social element, and how much good is it going to do to stay 2m apart, if we then all bang heads together round a board game afterwards. Equally, putting the smaller rooms out of commission means that the RPG group is dead, unless we continue online. That in turn effects viability of the club for the night when the RPG group runs, and we get into closing odd days which will cause confusion. The counter argument is of course, social distance and then go to your games, and after that, how much table hopping do we do? Usually table top wargamers get a single game in. The only bubble mixing is after the main board game is over, and we start on a secondary short game. Equally, if you're moving to another table it should be easy to maintain your distance while talking to the other person you want to chat too (but not play with).
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dan
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Post by dan on Sept 17, 2021 12:41:39 GMT
Soooo are we going with this then people?
If we need an alternative rp night then I can be online on a Friday or Sunday evening?
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dan
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Post by dan on Sept 17, 2021 12:43:27 GMT
Though our usual rp room does have a fire exit door in it so that plus the windows and the interior door would surely create enough of a wind tunnel to move the air about?
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Post by Timf on Sept 17, 2021 16:50:56 GMT
Ill commentr today or tomorrow on suggestions around the core and why. But those are a core...in brief we need some separation/distancing and I'll make some comments for people to decide from
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Post by Timf on Sept 18, 2021 22:18:51 GMT
1: If you're ill, or develop any of the symptoms while at the club, or awaiting a test stay away. 2: Ventilation, all doors and windows to be opened. Be warned, winter is coming: dress appropriately. 3: frequent hand cleaning (Set an alarm clock for every hour? Half-hour?). 4: Masks while moving about the room. Other than that PPE to be personnel choice. 1 and 2 yes. 3 - setting a time isnt ideal since it doesnt tie sanitisation to a risk behaviour. Best leave it at 'on entry and when returning to a table' Could also do the important statement of avoid touching you nose/mouth and then a game surface without sanitising as a dual purpose - a standard rule (Ie Face from government mantras) plus binds it to sanitisation point. 4 Yes, other PPE - more iffy. Depending upon what people decide on using PPE incorrectly makes things worse (gloves being the main example there). I do think we need to add no food and drink at tables. If someone is carrying that is a quick way way to let them spread. If people are getting up or going outside to grab a drink it reinforces the sanitisation pattern. Oh and I know clubs where they ban this normally just to keep games in reasonable nick. Yes it will inconvenience some but I think relatively few and its a decent cost benefit. Its not saying no hydration allowed at the club…just step away from the table and clean up. We really should use some kind of distancing and separation as a potential firebreak. To be fair, normally everyone arriving sits in a big wide circle anyway and the majority play at one table. So really if we have a no table hopping and social distancing rule - how many will it affect? Four tables is really the maximum number of games we can run and have space to move around so that shouldnt changed. The 4 at a game idea was only a suggestion as it keeps people not bashing heads at the table - a way of increasing the numbers is to use double tables which keeps people spread out but allows more at the spot - so perhaps 4 at a single table, 7 at a double?? If we do distancing (and I recommend we do) then we should have a line saying 'no crowding heads at the table, take turns peering. So we really should not be banging heads at the table. As to why when wandering and not at table for masks makes a difference - respiration volumes change significantly between sitting and moving around. For airflow and release the University tool has 3 levels - from lowest as sitting/speaking, through standing/walking and higher activity levels being the worst and the graphs change quite a bit. The technical process should be sit at table with mask on, wait for breathing to settle for a few secs and then remove mask and in reverse mask on before standing. Not that I think we put that level of detail in the rules. As such sitting down does alter the equation enough. With Social distancing, I originally put 2m in as the standard just because people will be familiar with it and it covers all circumstances, but if everyone involved is face covered then 1m is enough - 2m only necessary around people who arent masked because they cannot safely wear them (no out for steaming glasses, please, we should all be able to manage that now and it isnt an effect in game). That '1m with facecover' should allow for talking easily and end of night observing. With some unable to wear masks for medical reasons we have to accept a couple of people not covering up as they move round (Equality Act basically) as we can extend to 2m if someone in that position is involved in any interaction. I am acutely aware of that, but Im not going to fudge things for my personal benefit. However, with ventilation the single most important issue and those side rooms not really able to ventilate well, that is our situation. We could play in the main hall if it doesnt irritate the others and if we went for the larger table, larger numbers idea that might work. Equally online has worked well. As a final note - the notable difference between sitting and standing making a difference does lean to facecovering at a minis game when standing for any length of time. Again aware ofthe affect this will have on running an Uncharted Seas. As a final comment - the current Delta dominated peak has started to come down, if it comes down enough in Cambridge we could potentially run the Cambridge Uni room assessment and see if that makes it sufficiently safe to remove some more of these restrictions (assuming players are happy to do that). However since the numbers are currently blocking use of that tool we need to wait for the peak to properly lower. However, that is a potential point to review, as people become more comfortable meeting in person.
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dan
Cato Would Be Proud
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Post by dan on Sept 25, 2021 15:57:14 GMT
Do we have a plan for this Monday?
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Post by listy on Oct 12, 2021 17:06:16 GMT
Right, Dan's asked me to re-write the rules for a potential re-opening next Monday.
However, at current I have about 40 things all happening at once, and so I'll not be able to tackle this problem until next Monday (if then). Thus could I ask that someone take over the rule drafting please?
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Katie
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We need bigger datas.
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Post by Katie on Oct 12, 2021 23:09:35 GMT
My suggestion:
1. I move we amend the club constitution to add, in an appropriate place, the following: "Any prospective members and any members attending one or more sessions of the club by doing so agrees that under no circumstances will they or any heirs or any personal representatives or any legal representatives attach or cause to be attached any liability for any losses or damages due in part or whole by infectious disease howsoever caused to be laid upon any other members in attendance or any members not in attendance or to any officer of the club and that any recourse from the club itself will be constrained to the absolute limit of the refund of monies paid in fee for the session."
2. I move that the club will adopt the policy that "Each meeting of the club will adopt the infection control measures prescribed for that point in time for office workplaces. If the UK government or local government re-introduces work-from-home rules, the club will once again be suspended from meeting in person. The club may also be suspended from meeting in person under other circumstances as and when decided by one or more officers to allow for the club to react to local circumstances. The club will endeavour but will not guarantee to provide hand-sanitiser and additional ventilation. Members are encouraged to maintain social distancing as government advice states. Members are encouraged to be vaccinated against covid-19 and influenza."
3. I move that we add the following rule to our general rules for members: "Please DO NOT come to the club if you have symptoms of influenza, covid-19 or any other contagious illness or if you have reason to suspect that you may have been infected by any contagious illness even if you do not have symptoms."
4. I move that we add the following rule to our general rules for members: "As a matter of general hygiene and as a courtesy to those providing games miniatures and other materials please do not eat food during gaming."
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dan
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Post by dan on Oct 13, 2021 12:14:26 GMT
Sounds good to me Katie.
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Post by Timf on Oct 15, 2021 7:45:54 GMT
Changes to the Constitution are not a suitable route for a short term response.
Not only that, a Constitution is a Terms of Reference style document not one for making and enforcing contracts as per the first section so the legal agreement stuff has no place in it. Also far more importantly, you cannot just contract away a statutory duty of care so it shouldnt be there anyway.
Reading from an HSE perspective the first section and first and fourth sentence of 2, would be seen as knowing there is a problem because and trying to evade responsiblities and even bully people into acquiescence because some issued are identified and then not guaranteed and using vague sentences to make people think they were being protected while actually either meaning something else. That's actually a worse position that just writing a document that says 'we dont think we need any controls'.
The middle part of 2 talking about when to shut down again is useful, not necessary but certainly worth using as the base for a re-lockdown line which we hopefully will not need.
Three is too long. For a set of covid control rules, it should be more focussed 'Do not come to the club if you have any covid related symptoms, or are waiting for a test result'. For the long term, then this one might be something to consider adding to the Constitution in the future but should be kept simpler i.e. 'PLease do not come to the club if you are sick' but we can deal with that once we are functioned in person again.
Item 4 - if it is decided this should be included as fomite control for Covid then it needs to be food and drink at the table otherwise it doesnt do enough. If this is for post-covid I'd say that this is more appropriately down to the players respecting each others stuff. A 'respect other players and their property' line in the COnstitution could be added to cover that and many other issues as we don't have anything in the Constitution currently beyond a reference to a code of conduct that eludes me but thats not in the aim to get decisions put up for Monday.
This needs a set of bullet point rules decided by the club officers and stuck up so people can decide if they will come or not. Im not one of those so no matter how much I wave my professional opinion on the matter anything I add is discussion not movement. Nothing to say the ruleset cannot be changed from there quickly and ideally it should be able to do that as the Delta peak hopefully starts to go down (though it has rather nastily flattened).
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dan
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Post by dan on Oct 15, 2021 11:28:24 GMT
We tried several ideas and it was all no no no when it got posted.
Someone needs to just write something that's acceptable to the majority so we can go back to the hut else we'll just be online for ever.
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Post by Timf on Oct 16, 2021 17:23:09 GMT
Well ill be online whatever…head hit at rugby means Im on concussion protocols so Ill stay in whatever…..
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dan
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Post by dan on Oct 16, 2021 18:02:55 GMT
Well ill be online whatever…head hit at rugby means Im on concussion protocols so Ill stay in whatever….. Ouch!
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dan
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Post by dan on Oct 23, 2021 15:50:27 GMT
In person on Monday. See discord for details.
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