|
Post by rflowings on Nov 28, 2015 23:28:22 GMT
Are you reading the same version of the army lists? Only I can't find any spear unit which is listed as having a hw as well... Is it at all possible you're reading things like " H/Sh Sp " and seeing that as a hw, sp and shield instead of heavy armour, shield and spear? ... *Checks army list* D'oh. Well that solves that issue. Forget everything I said, except Follow Me Up to Carlow, that is a fine old song. Nice groundworm, incidentally. I agree that is probably the way forward for Chris, although If I were to suggest a paint sceme it might be simple layering of the one shade, with a nice slimy sheen of gloss varnish to lubricate its passage through the cthonic depths.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 27, 2015 20:53:50 GMT
"Another thing I think we needed clarifying- can 'spear' armed units be assumed to fight with hand-weapons if they declare that?" Technically, yes because having a hw as well is still zero points.. but that's starting to get cheesy right there. Having them carry an extra weapon should get them at least a -1 encumbrance... otherwise people are going to be wandering about with a sword, spear, pike, 2h axe and a club-with-nails-in-it all at the same time.. This needs to be accounted for in some way, then. Either the SP+HW weapons listing for damned near every spear (or polearm, or pike) armed unit in the game is incorrect, or we have to find some practicable way to allow troops to use their mix of weapons. There is a huge amount of precedent for soldiers throughout history carrying a 'unit' arm such as spear, pike, glaive etc, to be used in formation fighting, as well as a one-handed straightsword, backsword (or gladius) as a sidearm for when unit cohesion breaks down and fighting comes down to personal defence. Troops armed in such a way were used to marching and drilling with all those weapons at once, setting down, picking up, drawing and sheathing in seconds on command. There are songs where this activity features. I'd say in that instance there's no justification for encumbrance rules. I reenact with sword and pike simultaneously and when you're used the the weight you're used to the weight. Perhaps more relevantly, much more hardcore groups like the Ermine Street Guard, who routinely drill and march in lorica segmentata get similar results. For what it's worth though it does seem mad to be able to tab between the two weapons at will, particularly the longarms (you can sheathe a sword, you can't sheathe a spear). As I see it there are two options: 1: Spear & Sword armed troops must declare at the beginning of the battle which arm they are using for the entire battle. This sacrifices realism for practicality in that there is no disadvantage to troops armed only with hand weapons and shields, and no need for points changes. It does disadvantage spear/pike troops who become disorganised, when historically they had swords for backup. 2: Spear & Sword armed troops can switch from spear/pike to sword once per battle, effectively getting stuck in once (if) cohesion breaks down. This is realistic, but should probably be compensated with points (a major drawback if your elvish troops are bloody expensive already). We may be getting excessively granular on this issue, but it did come up in the last battle so seeing people's thoughts is interesting.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 26, 2015 22:26:56 GMT
A defence bonus : Spear unit on 'Hold' order doesn't suffer the 'fighting in two rank' penalty. I like this best because we don't want to invalidate the pike by giving spearmen excessive power against cavalry - impairing "linebreaker" seems like a huge power increase, but limiting it to an order bonus is a nice touch. Food for thought...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 26, 2015 19:19:39 GMT
To the (rather enlightening)probabilities calculated here I will also add at this point that I mainly used swords in our battle to compensate for the disorganisation in the ranks caused by fluffing that order in turn 2, which exacerbated the spears issue.
That and a primal desire to gut something with swords after the lads' somewhat unimpressive performance against Chris at Fellfog Marsh. And that desire was most definitely sated.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 26, 2015 18:40:34 GMT
There is one occasion where it is relevant: being attacked in the front and rear simultaneously (I believe) adds a considerable 'to hit' bonus to a spear or pike-wielding player, more than compensating for the 'two rank' penalty.
I'm certain I saw this rule previously. Katie's blog library has grown increasingly mighty as she tirelessly translates the Italian grimoires, so I am no longer sure where it is located.
In our case I was attacked in both flanks - I don't believe that qualifies for the bonus - but it's a useful bonus if it exists, and perfectly accurate.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 21, 2015 13:07:01 GMT
Well that solves that one. Seems there ought to be some kind of penalty for other types of terrain, or a corresponding points cost for that particular bonus. Now, the Naran version is massive (the magic rules are hundreds of pages). Wut. See, the big attraction of FW so far has been its relative simplicity...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 19, 2015 19:03:13 GMT
Beat me to the punch, you Sindarin sybarite, you! Chad sums up the action pretty comprehensively,and I have nothing to add to his account... here's my fictionalised response: It was in the 413th year of the Age of Silent Stars that the warhost of Elf-Lord Culdethrin ventured into the Sylvan realm to undertake, as they said, strategic manoeuvres. When the feasting and drinking finally reached its zenith, the warriors hewed down an ash tree of incomparable antiquity to feed the annual bonfire the High Kin held to honour their ancestors.
When the ruler of the green-elves, tolerant as he was of his cousins' seasonal visits and drunken debauchery, heard that the sacred ash had been felled, he gathered a mighty force of his people and marched on Culdethrin to avenge the destruction. So began the Kinslaying of Red Glade.
The wood elf archers, thinking to take their urban kin by surprise, were set upon by the high elves swiftly and fiercely, and the sky was thick with arrows like to flights of swallows. Many fell on both sides, but the woodland folk far the more, and those who did not flee were slain where they stood by the armoured high elf warriors.
Then the Woodland King brought up the main body of his army and they threw themselves on Culdethrin's guard with wild abandon. Sword on sword, bronze on steel, Blood flowed like rainwater on the crag where the high elves made their stand, and though the woodland folk again dragged down many of their foes, soon the green king's household had fallen and he fought alone against the high elf champions.
But all was not lost. The cavalry of the wood elves, seeing their liege lord set upon and soon to be slain, hacked their way through Culdethrin's troops and rescued the king, laying low the banners of their proud cousins and exacting the justice they had sought for the slaying of the archaic tree.
The blood and bodies of elves scarce to be counted, silver-mailed and green-cloaked, mingled on the crag - it is said that even now, a score or more years since that day, the meltwater flowing from red glade runs crimson with the blood of the fallen. Never again would the high elves fell a Sylvan tree - the woods would not echo to their revelry as long as time endured.Anyone??? Take your pick!!! EDIT: A few more thoughts on the rules. 1: Moving through woods. Well, I wasn't clear on the rules either and it might not have made a tremendous difference in the end. Chalk it up to experience... 2: Saving throw wasn't a big issue in the game, I didn't actually get that many accurate shots at the cavalry and I can't recall anything that crucial being that borderline. 3: Spears. I agree re spears, the advantage of extra attacks is somewhat nullified by penetrative power and the to hit penalty. Spears also don't get the defensive bonus that pikes do against cavalry. The two-ranks accuracy penalty can be compensated for by 'veteran' status, but average troops fare less well. Which isn't a hundred per cent sound historically since spears were the world's first force multiplier for less noble or martial troops... 4: C&C. Conversely I think my biggest error was leaving your archer Battle Leader unmolested after I'd eliminated his troops. If I'd killed him it would have triggered a command check which could (but might not) have sent your low-command troops running for the woods. That said, you moved up your reserves fast enough that I had a very tight time window for that, if indeed it would have been possible at all. 5: Missilery. Actually limited ammunition and blackening the sky is one of my favourite parts of FW, it really gets you thinking about how to use your archers. I'm still getting used to having tough archers in this game and you were dead right to hit me with everything you had - your archers were thoroughly chewed in this battle. I believe I suggested that there was a limitation on troops with missile weapons, having consulted the section in question ( rules for composition of the army) I can see there wasn't, although there is a minimum spend of 20% points on infantry without missile weapons or saving throws. I'm inclined to think we both adhered to that. Thanks to Katie for the fabulous resource. In summary, a game well played! We'll have you next time.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 19, 2015 18:18:36 GMT
.....apart from the house rules.... And the several different versions of army lists with different troop stats and points costs! Still, there's a good game in there! Be fair, though, gents, we do have Katie to collate all that stuff for us, saving us thumbing through ancient magazines or attempting to channel Nick Lund to answer our errata. FoW, of course, is current issue...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 11, 2015 18:26:25 GMT
I use cardboard trays so at least we will be consistent!
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 11, 2015 11:07:57 GMT
Damned sorry I missed this! I shall endeavour to make it the next time the 'nefs take to the skies, this looked like one hell of a bust-up.
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 9, 2015 22:38:45 GMT
We didn't use combo orders when Chris and I played, but Katie about sums it up, there's no gamechangers in the extra rules. Oh, and I finally have a shipping notice for the rest of my ratties!! I see what you mean about the service... I have placed and received a order which I though was pretty slow going, in the time since you placed that order. Let them come! Bring on the vermintide!
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 8, 2015 12:06:38 GMT
OK, so I can try these rules out, anyone want to try out a 1000 pointer with me sometime in the near future? Aye, I am up for it, but could we do next week rather than tomorrow? I am amidst a lot of painting this weekend for other genres and could use the extra week to do some more sabots...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 4, 2015 22:24:41 GMT
Just noted that there has been no AAR on the the last conflict. Lord Chancellor Calenhad furrowed her brow as she read over the final report from the Fellfog Marsh watchtower. The garrison's commander stared directly ahead, avoiding her eyes, grimy helmet clutched under his soiled purple cloak."You waited from dawn to dusk" murmured Calenhad, "without advancing a single pace?""That's not entirely true, your grace", said commander Thandril. "My archers played havoc with the vermin's left flank throughout the day. in fact, we...""You were overrun. I read your report. It is there in black and white. Tell me again how a rabble of half-sentient overgrown rats overcame trained elvish soldiers."Thandril winced. "The fault was mine, your grace. I had anchored our position on the hills overlooking the marsh and once I had placed the bolt throwers, we were there for the long haul. Prince Eulion's division heard the rats screeching in the darkness as dusk fell and decided to respond with a few verses of the Noldolantë." "He goaded them into attack. hardly a wise move given your dispersed deployment."
"Against ordinary rat warriors we would have held, your grace. These were no ordinary levies from the Underdark, however. The louder we sang, the louder they screeched, and when they came they moved like crazed beasts, heedless of their own lives. I realised too late that Eulion's troops were unprepared to make a stand. And the rats brought something new. Great mutated monsters of their kind, rat trolls as big as bears. Prince Eulion's men brought one down with their axes, but their wounds healed as soon as a blow was struck."
"And he broke and ran. And so did you."
Thandril glared at Calenhad for the first time. "Hardly, your grace! Admittedly, we lost the salt marsh pastures, and a number of farms have been displaced, but the force withdrew in good order and we have regrouped at the Tower of Porphyry. We await only reinforcements to strike back at the rats when the winter has depleted their numbers!"
Calenhad rolled up Thandril's report and prepared her ink-well for another missive.
"There will be a relief force, Thandril, but you will not command. Your reward and punishment will be to lead your marksmen in the stemming of this rat tide before the winter. This is not the only incursion of their kind. Our spies in the realms of men have reported rat hosts advancing by night and by day. If we do not finish this before the snows come, we may have a bigger problem on our hands."
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 4, 2015 19:56:20 GMT
No worries on that score chaps, it may be useful to have some more casual armies to act as minor realms, opportunistic raiders and generally work in a thick layer of that good old Clausewitzian friction...
|
|
|
Post by rflowings on Nov 3, 2015 16:40:27 GMT
1000pts has been the case so far, but I think most of us either have or will have around 2000 points shortly. On that note, I have just finished another unit of High Elf heavy infantry. More to come.
Nice to hear there will be more elvish warriors joining the mix. Should I add your forces to the campaign roster?
|
|